# #20: Consumer Protect & Fraud in Payments

[Payment Systems Broadcast](/content/all-fna-broadcasts/category/Payment+Systems+Broadcast/index.html)

6 Mar

Written By [Saiesha Pitroda](/content/all-fna-broadcasts?author=6825c3024b109a092cd591c8/index.html)

**20th March 2025**

**With:**

| Oliver Hanmer (Payment System Regulator)  
| Dave McPhee (Pay.UK)

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In Session #20, **Oliver Hanmer** (Payment Systems Regulator - PSR) and **Dave McPhee** (Pay.UK) join FNA to discuss the UK's high-stakes pivot toward mandatory fraud protection. Following the landmark October 2024 mandate, which requires banks to reimburse victims of APP fraud up to £85,000, the discussion explores the operational and cultural shift now required of financial institutions.

The guests move beyond policy to examine the **"Data-Intelligence" loop**. With Pay.UK processing over £10 trillion annually, Dave McPhee highlights the value of the **Reimbursement Claims Management System (RCMS)** as a central hub for identifying cross-bank fraud patterns. They also reveal the results of a groundbreaking AI pilot that achieved a **40% uplift in fraud detection**, proving that predictive analytics—rather than just manual friction—is the key to a secure, real-time ecosystem.

**Key Discussion Points:**

- **The Reimbursement Mandate:** Analyzing the impact of shifting liability to both sending and receiving banks to incentivize systemic vigilance.
- **Confirmation of Payee (CoP):** An update on the expansion of CoP, which now covers 99% of UK Faster Payments, and its role in reducing misdirected payments.
- **The RCMS Utility:** How Pay.UK's single claims management system acts as a national "brain" for collating fraud trends from across the industry.
- **AI & Predictive Overlays:** Insights from the 2023-24 pilot with **Featurespace** and **Visa**, exploring how overlay services can analyze money flows in real-time.
- **The "Customer Standard of Caution":** Discussing the delicate balance of regulatory expectations—when should a consumer be held responsible for an "obvious" scam?
- **Holistic Defense:** Why the fight against fraud must extend beyond banks to include social media, telecoms, and online platforms where scams originate.

**Watch on Demand:**

Listen on: [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/episode/0YSO3eBiKrm1lQqu7MX4WA?si=8462c99e3f2741f0) | [Apple](https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/payment-systems-broadcast-20-consumer-protection-and/id1772649634?i=1000699032105) | [Amazon Music](https://music.amazon.co.uk/podcasts/93293cc8-fa9c-41a8-a3d7-86b413d78941/episodes/1fcdc61e-240b-48a8-814b-90affae884e2/fna-broadcasts-payment-systems-broadcast-20---consumer-protection-and-fraud-in-payments)

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### Missed our previous sessions?

You can catch up with The Payment Systems Broadcast on-demand. [View all episodes >](/content/insights?category=Payment%20Systems%20Broadcast/index.html)

Or listen wherever you get your podcasts: [Spotify](https://open.spotify.com/episode/0wTNGVQvQMVWlCKqzXu5xx?si=b9d4fce15716478a) | [Apple](https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/payment-systems-broadcast-23-project-meridian-fx-cyber/id1772649634?i=1000725546180) | [Amazon Music](https://music.amazon.co.uk/podcasts/93293cc8-fa9c-41a8-a3d7-86b413d78941/episodes/f5c4b50e-b5a7-4104-b9a2-988a586fa42f/fna-broadcasts-payment-systems-broadcast-23---project-meridian-fx-cyber-resilience-insights-from-stress-testing)